Boxing

[HalloweenJack]

I doubt anyone does

Ive seen him in some. Colin Hart ( R.I.P) once did a list that had him I think at number 9 one place above Lennox.
Riddick Bowe is an example of a fighter who wasted his talent. He easily beats 90s version of Mike Tyson and I’d back him against 80s Tyson. Great all round fighter was Bowe ( jab, inside game, decent power)but he got hit way too much.

None of this somehow makes Fury an ATG.

He is easily top 20 and I would say that is an ATG.

[sennafan24]

I doubt anyone does

Ive seen him in some. Colin Hart ( R.I.P) once did a list that had him I think at number 9 one place above Lennox.
Riddick Bowe is an example of a fighter who wasted his talent. He easily beats 90s version of Mike Tyson and I’d back him against 80s Tyson. Great all round fighter was Bowe ( jab, inside game, decent power)but he got hit way too much.

None of this somehow makes Fury an ATG.

He is easily top 20 and I would say that is an ATG.

His career is only slightly better than Joshua's. He isn't an ATG unless you have low standards.

[Randall]

Post prison tyson was a shadow of himself.
Everything that made him good was gone

[HalloweenJack]

I doubt anyone does

Ive seen him in some. Colin Hart ( R.I.P) once did a list that had him I think at number 9 one place above Lennox.
Riddick Bowe is an example of a fighter who wasted his talent. He easily beats 90s version of Mike Tyson and I’d back him against 80s Tyson. Great all round fighter was Bowe ( jab, inside game, decent power)but he got hit way too much.

None of this somehow makes Fury an ATG.

He is easily top 20 and I would say that is an ATG.

His career is only slightly better than Joshua's. He isn't an ATG unless you have low standards.

Which Heavy weights since Lewis will be rated higher than him ?
Vitali
Wlad
Usyk

No more than that.

As good as Vitali was who was better than Wlad and would probably beat Usyk imo, his resume is a bit thin also.

[sennafan24]

Ive seen him in some. Colin Hart ( R.I.P) once did a list that had him I think at number 9 one place above Lennox.
Riddick Bowe is an example of a fighter who wasted his talent. He easily beats 90s version of Mike Tyson and I’d back him against 80s Tyson. Great all round fighter was Bowe ( jab, inside game, decent power)but he got hit way too much.

None of this somehow makes Fury an ATG.

He is easily top 20 and I would say that is an ATG.

His career is only slightly better than Joshua's. He isn't an ATG unless you have low standards.

Which Heavy weights since Lewis will be rated higher than him ?
Vitali
Wlad
Usyk

No more than that.

And?

[HalloweenJack]

None of this somehow makes Fury an ATG.

He is easily top 20 and I would say that is an ATG.

His career is only slightly better than Joshua's. He isn't an ATG unless you have low standards.

Which Heavy weights since Lewis will be rated higher than him ?
Vitali
Wlad
Usyk

No more than that.

And?

What do you define as an ATG ? For me it is resume/talent. Fury had the talent, only someone who doesn’t understand boxing would say otherwise. He beat Wilder when he was unbeaten and the most feared puncher in boxing. The third fight was rightfully called as fight of the year and one of the best HW fights in recent times. Two close losses ( some will say both were subjective) to Usyk who will go down as a modern great in boxing and is arguably the best P4P fighter currently. Yes Fury could have fought more eg Joshua, but circumstances have stopped that fight and let’s be honest Fury wins that easily. But he has a win over Wlad, 3 over Wilder ( forget the bullshit draw)

[sennafan24]

He is easily top 20 and I would say that is an ATG.

His career is only slightly better than Joshua's. He isn't an ATG unless you have low standards.

Which Heavy weights since Lewis will be rated higher than him ?
Vitali
Wlad
Usyk

No more than that.

And?

What do you define as an ATG ? For me it is resume/talent. Fury had the talent, only someone who doesn’t understand boxing would say otherwise. He beat Wilder when he was unbeaten and the most feared puncher in boxing. The third fight was rightfully called as fight of the year and one of the best HW fights in recent times. Two close losses ( some will say both were subjective) to Usyk who will go down as a modern great in boxing and is arguably the best P4P fighter currently. Yes Fury could have fought more eg Joshua, but circumstances have stopped that fight and let’s be honest Fury wins that easily. But he has a win over Wlad, 3 over Wilder ( forget the bullshit draw)

Skill? He was very good on his day, but that day didn't come often enough. He was very inconsistent. Many overrated his skill late in his career too. For example, after the Whyte bout there was a Twitter poll asking who would win between him and Peak Lewis. Fury won it.

Anyway, greatness is defined by resume. Wilder was a good win, but he made heavy weather of the job in their first and third fights. Most other elite level heavyweights would have polished off Wilder far quicker and easier. The excitement of the third fight is irrelevant to this discussion.

He clearly lost against Usyk twice and most people with an IQ above room temperature recognise that. If he had beaten Usyk he would be a lock for the top 10 of all-time based on peak victories, but he fell short. We can't credit him for what he didn't do.

It wasn't just Joshua who he didn't fight from his era. He didn't fight Parker, Ortiz, Povetkin, Zhang, Ruiz, or Joyce, names that would have added much needed depth to his resume. Of course, there were reasons why he didn't fight these guys, but regardless as to whether he was to blame or not, they remain missing from his record.

Are wins over Wlad, Wilder, Chisora and Whyte enough to make him an ATG? I don't think so. The quality and quantity of wins is simply not there.

[HalloweenJack]

His career is only slightly better than Joshua's. He isn't an ATG unless you have low standards.

Which Heavy weights since Lewis will be rated higher than him ?
Vitali
Wlad
Usyk

No more than that.

And?

What do you define as an ATG ? For me it is resume/talent. Fury had the talent, only someone who doesn’t understand boxing would say otherwise. He beat Wilder when he was unbeaten and the most feared puncher in boxing. The third fight was rightfully called as fight of the year and one of the best HW fights in recent times. Two close losses ( some will say both were subjective) to Usyk who will go down as a modern great in boxing and is arguably the best P4P fighter currently. Yes Fury could have fought more eg Joshua, but circumstances have stopped that fight and let’s be honest Fury wins that easily. But he has a win over Wlad, 3 over Wilder ( forget the bullshit draw)

Skill? He was very good on his day, but that day didn't come often enough. He was very inconsistent. Many overrated his skill late in his career too. For example, after the Whyte bout there was a Twitter poll asking who would win between him and Peak Lewis. Fury won it.

Anyway, greatness is defined by resume. Wilder was a good win, but he made heavy weather of the job in their first and third fights. Most other elite level heavyweights would have polished off Wilder far quicker and easier. The excitement of the third fight is irrelevant to this discussion.

He clearly lost against Usyk twice and most people with an IQ above room temperature recognise that. If he had beaten Usyk he would be a lock for the top 10 of all-time based on peak victories, but he fell short. We can't credit him for what he didn't do.

It wasn't just Joshua who he didn't fight from his era. He didn't fight Parker, Ortiz, Povetkin, Zhang, Ruiz, or Joyce, names that would have added much needed depth to his resume. Of course, there were reasons why he didn't fight these guys, but regardless as to whether he was to blame or not, they remain missing from his record.

Are wins over Wlad, Wilder, Chisora and Whyte enough to make him an ATG? I don't think so. The quality and quantity of wins is simply not there.

Somewhat harsh to say Fury made heavy weather of the first fight with Wilder, baring in mind he had all that time off and 2 warm up fights against mediocre opposition. Fury was basically a cherry pick for Wilder that went wrong. How many ‘elite’ level heavyweights would have done the same and took that fight in the same circumstances?
If Fury had been given the nod in the first fight against Usyk, It would have been seen by some as controversial but hardly a robbery. One judge did give him the fight and wasn’t questioned on that. It was hardly Taylor v Catterall 1
There was also quite a few people who gave Fury the 2nd fight. I personally scored it 115-113 Usyk which is documented on here. I had the first 114-113 Fury but I accept it could have gone either way. I do think the 9th round swayed a lot of people’s opinion. I personally think having a 3rd fight with Wilder than say fighting Parker is better for his resume due to the excitement and legacy of that fight.
Do I think Fury’s resume could be better? Absolutely.
As I stated he will be in IBHOF not bad considering it is biased generally towards American fighters and there are plenty of American HW world champions who aren’t in it.

[sennafan24]

Which Heavy weights since Lewis will be rated higher than him ?
Vitali
Wlad
Usyk

No more than that.

And?

What do you define as an ATG ? For me it is resume/talent. Fury had the talent, only someone who doesn’t understand boxing would say otherwise. He beat Wilder when he was unbeaten and the most feared puncher in boxing. The third fight was rightfully called as fight of the year and one of the best HW fights in recent times. Two close losses ( some will say both were subjective) to Usyk who will go down as a modern great in boxing and is arguably the best P4P fighter currently. Yes Fury could have fought more eg Joshua, but circumstances have stopped that fight and let’s be honest Fury wins that easily. But he has a win over Wlad, 3 over Wilder ( forget the bullshit draw)

Skill? He was very good on his day, but that day didn't come often enough. He was very inconsistent. Many overrated his skill late in his career too. For example, after the Whyte bout there was a Twitter poll asking who would win between him and Peak Lewis. Fury won it.

Anyway, greatness is defined by resume. Wilder was a good win, but he made heavy weather of the job in their first and third fights. Most other elite level heavyweights would have polished off Wilder far quicker and easier. The excitement of the third fight is irrelevant to this discussion.

He clearly lost against Usyk twice and most people with an IQ above room temperature recognise that. If he had beaten Usyk he would be a lock for the top 10 of all-time based on peak victories, but he fell short. We can't credit him for what he didn't do.

It wasn't just Joshua who he didn't fight from his era. He didn't fight Parker, Ortiz, Povetkin, Zhang, Ruiz, or Joyce, names that would have added much needed depth to his resume. Of course, there were reasons why he didn't fight these guys, but regardless as to whether he was to blame or not, they remain missing from his record.

Are wins over Wlad, Wilder, Chisora and Whyte enough to make him an ATG? I don't think so. The quality and quantity of wins is simply not there.

Somewhat harsh to say Fury made heavy weather of the first fight with Wilder, baring in mind he had all that time off and 2 warm up fights against mediocre opposition. Fury was basically a cherry pick for Wilder that went wrong. How many ‘elite’ level heavyweights would have done the same and took that fight in the same circumstances?
If Fury had been given the nod in the first fight against Usyk, It would have been seen by some as controversial but hardly a robbery. One judge did give him the fight and wasn’t questioned on that. It was hardly Taylor v Catterall 1
There was also quite a few people who gave Fury the 2nd fight. I personally scored it 115-113 Usyk which is documented on here. I had the first 114-113 Fury but I accept it could have gone either way. I do think the 9th round swayed a lot of people’s opinion. I personally think having a 3rd fight with Wilder than say fighting Parker is better for his resume due to the excitement and legacy of that fight.
Do I think Fury’s resume could be better? Absolutely.
As I stated he will be in IBHOF not bad considering it is biased generally towards American fighters and there are plenty of American HW world champions who aren’t in it.

It wasn't simply a choice between a 3rd Wilder bout and a Parker bout. Had he not got AWOL in 2016, regardless of the reasons why he did, he could have easily added more depth to his record by fighting Parker, Ortiz, etc. There was also a 2 year stretch between the Whyte and Usyk bouts where all he boxed was Ngannou and a pointless third bout with Chisora. A lot of potential ring time, which could have been spent building a better resume, therefore went to waste.

His performance in the first Wilder bout wasn't that good in retrospect. He left openings for Wilder to land his right hand. It's a weakness of Fury's throughout his career that he has defensive lapses and gets rocked. So it wasn't just the lay off that was responsible for Wilder almost beating him (I did score the bout for Fury before you moan). Again, most elite level heavyweights would have stopped Wilder with their B-game.

Hatton, a British boxer you claim to be massively overhyped, is in the HOF. So by your own standards it's not like Fury's induction would prove much.